NLP Modelling the Masters - Tom O Connor

Hypnosis - Discussion between Michael Beale and Tom O Connor, October 2007.

Tom O'Connor

Tom OConnor is the Managing Director of Inside Leap. Inside Leap is an innovative graduate career and professional performance company.

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http://www.ppimk.com/nlp-podcast/tom-2.mp3

Michael : Good morning Tom

Tom: Good morning Michael, how are you?

Michael : Very well thanks. And Im particularly pleased that youre taking some time out to let myself and our listeners know a little bit more about this really interesting project that youve done on modelling the NLP master. So can I ask you to remind everybody a little bit about who you are and what you do.

Tom: Sure, my name is Tom OConnor and Im a managing director of a company called InsideLeap which is a company in innovative and gradual career and performance training. We help organisations improve their process and organisation of people issues, to improve the bottom line in terms of productivity, and as a by-product, profitability of the organisation.

Michael : And how did you get involved in this Modelling-The-Masters project?

Tom: Well it was more a very good friend of mine, Vikesh Ghelani who became my partner on the project. We were having these discussions just around NLP, and what we found out was all the NLP books that had been written, and many recent books that had been written, kind of come out, and to some degree are an application of previous works. And later on we thought, one of the things that would be fascinating is to understand, if you had the opportunity to go and interview some of the leading men of NLP, and find out what they went through to get to where they are today. And theres that whole matter of once youve had a strong idea of modelling, but also in NLP and belief structures and all the components of that I thought it would be a fascinating project to go and interview some of the top people whod be able to share that information to both NLPers new, and experienced.

Michael : When you started talking to these NLP masters, what were some of the things that surprised you?

Tom: Theres a few things Id say surprised me with the project and also dealing with the various methods of training developed, that came from all around the world. One thing that became very clear and this is more towards the end of the program, which I suppose gave me a very strong feeling that first of all almost all of the NLP masters that weve interviewed, in my opinion at least, were very much, very human. And by that I mean, many NLPers evolved maybe ten or fifteen years ago, and after them came their forms of training, one of the things that you see amongst students, is that they seem to put master trainers up on a pedestal, and when I got to spend a lot more time interviewing them and speaking to a lot of other trainers as opposed to a select few I would have been familiar with before, the only thing that really came out is that these people are very much human beings and very down to earth and regular Joes, in jeans, so to speak.

That was one of the things that surprised me, I suppose because it was an unconscious belief that I had picked up in my own head and by being around them and seeing their strength and their weaknesss and the areas where they were clearly brilliant at NLP and other areas where they chose in their careers to naturally not focus on, where their knowledge base wasnt as advanced as other trainers. That fascinated me.

Michael : So they were human, what else interested you, and fascinated you?

Tom: The other thing about the project is how polar were these people are. And by that I mean is that in NLP there are obviously John Grinder then theres Dr Richard Bandler, which Id say are different extremes. And one of the things that was an issue when we were launching the product and in conversation with people in the NLP space, whod come from both sides of the house of speakers to say that there is such a strong polarisation just among NLPers. Which some found something quite difficult to conceive, youd go off to one interview, and youd be asked how youd include one trainer but not necessarily all the other trainers. I find it fascinating that in this day and age, 2007, you find such a strong polarisation that goes on and obviously not necessarily the within the community but definitely within some people. And that surprised me.

Michael : Thats interesting because in Mind Map, NLP is about modelling which can be as simple as asking questions and we should be continuously learning from whoever it is.

Tom: Yes I totally agree and another thing I noticed is people would always say even personally, if I hadnt been around the park, I would have certainly been to the downtown Borders, and looked to learn from this, because getting access to the people that we did, the research that we did and the way that we constructed our interviews and made a lot of invaluable information available, where to me I dont particularly mind if youre a master trainer, youre a lead person or youre just somebody thats totally new into NLP, there is something very big that can be learned from the experienced people that have gone before you and have really mastered the feel of NLP. So it surprised me when there were some people that automatically just would have shut down on the idea because they might have just felt polarised and saying what can NLP do? Why are we doing this sort of thing? All of NLP has already been discovered. Im not sure that thats the case, certainly the individual opinions and personal experiences of trainers and people that we spoke with are something thats unique and different then whats typically available in most NLP products.

Michael : I totally agree, and thats one of the reasons why were having this conversation because I actually think that its a really great thing that youve done and I found it absolutely fascinating just listening to the approaches and views of other trainers, whether I like them, whether I dont like them seeing the paths and the approaches that other people have taken.

Tom: Yeah, and one of the things that Ive found interesting and fascinating, in relation to what weve found in XXX is that one great thing that comes out of when you have the ability and maybe people who are total new people into NLP and havent had a former training or much experience may not necessarily pick this up straight away, but anybody else will, and obviously those who progressed will as well, it that the in built so to speak- and unconscious beliefs and values and the way in which the trainers themselves thought to construct their own sentences and language its extremely powerful and tells you a lot about that individual person, but also in relation to the kind of meta-patterns you can notice across interview in relation to like one of the key things we looked at was how these trainers work when theyre working with clients whove have hypno-therapy. And understanding, how do they approach that? In order to know whats different, and whats consistent and what I loved about it was that you have lots of trainers lots of different expertise and each of them brought something new in many cases or something different like most of them were very structured in there approach and quite methodical, and others were very not-structured, very fuzzy-like, and again were highly effective.

What I found extrapolating from that is very useful bringing information together and when you have multiple perspectives, it allowed me in my own work to become a lot more effective with particular clients that before were to challenging for us.

Michael : What else did you learn form doing it?

Tom: Well, one natural by-product, and its something that a lot of people in sales used to go over and take back to us, was certain interviews would have a theme, and that is very much the goal for us. Often I think its flippant and off the cuff, but you can really hear in the trainers voices and their experiences, and what they care about how they went through it, and very much how theyre human. Some of them when they worked with their first clients would have been nervous or under confident, and how they transformed to become the amazing trainers that they are today.

I thought that itself was very interesting from a learning point of view. Being able to go inside and really getting the idea that the map is not the territory and being able to identify your own construct in your own mind about how you work with clients, or how you go out and get business and any of these facets of NLP that weve looked at. It was a very useful mirror that Id found that going through the interviews, automatically evaluating how do I compare against that? not quite am I better or am I worse? situation, but rather what can I learn? Is it different, and is there something useful here that I could apply?

Michael : Is there anything that you think you do differently yourself after having gone through this exercise?

Tom: Definitely, one is showing that any projects that I get involved with, and Ive had a lot of opportunities to get involved with NLP related parties with multiple people, in all kind of contexts given the work that I do. And that is, the projects that I go for and the ones that I move towards, are ones that inspire me, and follows my fascination. Again, some of the projects done, some of them Vikesh and I are very much working on basic principles there are a lot of companies and projects that are done to create value for the people, but for me one of the few things that came out of it was ensuring me that I am just doing projects that I enjoy, that theyre a pleasure to do and also it gets you on something new, as it did with this.

Michael : Who do you think will get the most out of listening to Modelling of the Masters?

Tom: I would say the avid student, and by that I mean rather than classifying it as a prac or master prac or somebody new If you want to get the most of Modelling the Masters, rather than just listening to it once through, and thinking thats nice, or hearing a pattern or a way of doing things about your business, obviously positively, that you may have done before Modelling the masters, theres so much information in there, where its quite densely packed that people will get the most out of it at any level you could be a prac, and weve had this, weve had both very experienced trainers, and even the master trainers themselves, where most of them if not all of them have listened to the interviews themselves and given us feedback about what they enjoyed about it, themselves personally and what they got out of it and what they found interesting. But a couple of things, that if youre a prac, definitely, and even if youre somebody who isnt a practitioner but has a strong interest in NLP, then you will really get a fascinating and thorough groundwork on NLP in relation to some of the leading master trainers well not all, but many of the leading master trainers are under warrant for their input and viewpoint, on NLP and how to do it extremely well. That is invaluable in itself. If youre a more experienced person, like a master practitioner, or trainer the kind of thing that you learn is, some distinctive programs is being able to work with all types of clients but also being able to approach how you do your business differently then how you would typically do it after a training program, which is just I just want to set up an NLP training school or a coaching program or a hypnotherapy thing, and which isnt necessarily the most effective way.

So certainly it really comes down to what youre appetite is and how much you want to draw out of it, because the more you want to draw out of it than the more you will find there. And for most people, the feedback that people have found is all about the fascinating and interesting perspectives that theyve got on us, their ability to now approach business in a different way, their confidence, not by knowing or by listening to a certain degree like it being installed, or learning through the patterns of other trainers and how theyve got good, how they overcame challenges and their go-for-it attitude all of those components, those are things that are almost physically installed in you to a certain degree, just simply by listening, and really taking the time to stop and think how can I use this? Hows it going to benefit me, and go in there with specific objectives , and think ok if Im working with a client, I should use this next and what could I get out of it that could help me with that? in a business context all of those things would be useful

Michael : After doing modelling the masters, what are the other projects that youre looking at?

Tom: Were looking at a lot of projects. Across the fields one of the things we did was go off and interview well over five hundred NLP trainers and not just NLP trainers, NLPers. Ranging from entry level people to trainers, to get an understanding of people get these ideas of NLP, one being that its just some cult or some living breathing thing, when its not quite that, and on top of that theres demand and expectation of NLP saying that it has always been, which again I think is an inaccuracy.

So one of the things Ive been doing of late is weve taken a post in what is it? people in the NLP community, and weve got people from everywhere, Australia, Japan, all over Europe, south America weve literally had answers from all over the world and just getting an opinion, and a post, on where is it people right now are having challenges, practicing and mastering NLP? Where do they want to use it? And what would be of value to them? So were looking at a number of courses that we can offer, again, Vikesh and I are very much in the online phase, rather than the offline NLP training and once we have those things confirmed, what he have right now in our system about trainers, and about some of this stuff, once thats out, Ill be letting you know Michael and anybody else thats interested but unfortunately my hands are tied at the moment, I cant exactly tell you what it is!

Michael : Ok, thats fine. Can you let people have your contact details?

Tom: Sure if anybody wants to get in touch with me my phone number if anybody wants to reach me is +448450944603 so if you have any questions, comments anything you can always get hold of me, if youre interested in Modelling the Masters see www.modellingthe-masters.com

Michael : Ok, excellent. Thanks a lot Tom.

Further information on Modelling the Masters